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CC - 09-10-910 i APPROVED CITY OF ROSEMEAD MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING ROSEMEAD CITY COUNCIL DATE 52 -,7 5/ 91 SEPTEMBER 10, 1991 BY The Regular Meeting of the Rosemead City Council was called to order by Mayor Imperial at 8:08 p.m. in the Council Chambers of City Hall, 8838 E. Valley Boulevard, Rosemead, California. The Pledge to the Flag was led by Councilman McDonald. The Invocation was delivered by City Treasurer Foutz. ROLL CALL OF OFFICERS: Present: Councilmen Bruesch, McDonald, Taylor, Mayor Pro Tem Clark, and Mayor Imperial Absent: None APPROVAL OF MINUTES: AUGUST 13, 1991 - REGULAR MEETING MOTION BY COUNCILMAN BRUESCH, SECOND BY MAYOR PRO TEM CLARK that the Minutes of the Regular Meeting of August 13, 1991, be approved as submitted. Vote resulted: Yes: Bruesch, Taylor, Imperial, Clark No: None Absent: None Abstain: McDonald The Mayor declared said motion duly carried and so ordered. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: AUGUST 27, 1991 - REGULAR MEETING Councilman Bruesch asked to have the following added to his statement on Page #1, last paragraph "...open space so that the ordinance does not appear to promote additional vehicles at home sites." There being no objection, this was so ordered. MOTION BY COUNCILMAN BRUESCH, SECOND BY MAYOR PRO TEM CLARK that the Minutes of the Regular Meeting of August 27, 1991, be approved as amended. Vote resulted: Yes: Bruesch, Taylor, Imperial, Clark No: None Absent: None Abstain: McDonald The Mayor declared said motion duly carried and so ordered. PRESENTATIONS: A Proclamation was presented by the Council to Pepe Scharra, representing the YMCA, recognizing September 28, 1991, as YMCA PRIDE DAY. Additionally, the Council presented a City plaque to Bonnie Culbertson, Executive Vice-President and Chief Executive Officer of the Chamber of Commerce in honor of ten years of service to the City of Rosemead. I. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE - None II. PUBLIC HEARINGS Mayor Imperial asked that the two public hearings scheduled be continued to the next regular meeting for further information. The Mayor opened the public hearings and the items were continued to September 24, 1991, at 8:00 p.m. in this room. CC 9-10-91 Page #1 r- 'I LJ A. A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER A REQUEST FROM JAMES B. LIN TO REZONE A PARCEL OF LAND FROM R-1 (SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL) TO PO-D (PROFESSIONAL OFFICE WITH A DESIGN OVERLAY) LOCATED AT 9223-9225 GLENDON WAY (ZC 91-183) B. A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER A REQUEST FROM SHIGERU MINAMIZONO TO REZONE A PARCEL OF LAND FROM R-1 (SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL) TO PO-D (PROFESSIONAL OFFICE WITH A DESIGN OVERLAY) FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 9215-9217 GLENDON WAY (ZC 91-184) III.LEGISLATIVE A. RESOLUTION NO. 91-48 - CLAIMS & DEMANDS The following resolution was presented to the Council for adoption: RESOLUTION NO. 91-48 A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ROSEMEAD ALLOWING CERTAIN CLAIMS AND DEMANDS IN THE SUM OF $750,809.01 NUMBERED 37623-37651 AND 34425 THROUGH 34506 MOTION BY COUNCILMAN McDONALD, SECOND BY COUNCILMAN BRUESCH that Resolution No. 91-48 be adopted. Vote resulted: Yes: Bruesch, Taylor, Imperial, Clark, McDonald No: None Absent: None Abstain: None The Mayor declared said motion duly carried and so ordered. B. RESOLUTION NO. 91-49 - ADOPTING THE HOUSING ELEMENT OF THE GENERAL PLAN The following resolution was presented to the Council for adoption: RESOLUTION NO. 91-49 A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ROSEMEAD ADOPTING A HOUSING ELEMENT FOR THE CITY MOTION BY COUNCILMAN BRUESCH, SECOND BY COUNCILMAN McDONALD that Resolution No. 91-49 be adopted. Vote resulted: Yes: Bruesch, Imperial, Clark, McDonald No: Taylor Absent: None Abstain: None The Mayor declared said motion duly carried and so ordered. IV. CONSENT CALENDAR (CC-C REMOVED FOR CC-A AUTHORIZATION TO SOLICIT BIDS FOR THE 40th HANDYMAN BID PACKAGE CC-B AUTHORIZATION TO REJECT CLAIM FILED AGAINST THE CITY BY JOHN COOK MOTION BY COUNCILMAN BRUESCH, SECOND BY COUNCILMAN McDONALD that the foregoing items on the Consent Calendar. Vote resulted: Yes: Bruesch, Taylor, Imperial, Clark, McDonald No: None Absent: None Abstain: None The Mayor declared said motion duly carried and so ordered. CC 9-10-91 Page #2 i • CC-C AUTHORIZATION TO PREPARE AND MAIL SUPPLEMENTAL RECYCLING BROCHURE Holly Knapp, 8367 E. Whitmore Street, stated that another brochure was not needed but that if one was desired it should be included with the billing with multi-language translations. Councilman Bruesch suggested that recycling information be sent home with the students through the local schools. Mayor Pro Tem Clark agreed with the language translations for the brochure. Councilman Taylor agreed with sending the brochure with the billing. Mr. Taylor also noted there is some confusion with using a light blue container for green waste and suggested a green band or symbol of some kind be added to the cans to easily identify the contents as green waste. MOTION BY COUNCILMAN McDONALD, SECOND BY COUNCILMAN BRUESCH that the Council approve the mailing of a multi-language recycling brochure with the next billing sent by Consolidated Disposal Service. Vote resulted: Yes: Bruesch, Taylor, Imperial, Clark, McDonald No: None Absent: None Abstain: None The Mayor declared said motion duly carried and so ordered. V. MATTERS FOR DISCUSSION & ACTION A. IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE LOCAL PILOT PROGRAM VERBATIM DIALOGUE FOLLOWS: IMPERIAL: Mr. Robert Angles. AUDIENCE: Good evening. I'm Robert Angles at 9147 Valley Boulevard. I am in opposition to the installation of a handout program for the... of the Immigration and Naturalization service. I am against the local pilot program. There is a...I think it would be interest to the residents here to have a copy of the staff report read. I think it might clarify my position on this. I do not know what role the Council is going to take. In essence, Immigration is a federal... it's a federal job. It's a...the...I'm sorry, I just all of a sudden I can't talk. I don't believe that the City of Rosemead should get involved in a governmental program. There are other agencies that charge for this service. There was an agency in Flair Park, an immigration agency. For some reason it is not there now. I don't know why it has been taken out. I do not believe that the City of Rosemead should involved in a Federal government project. Again, I would like to hear the staff report which I read but I didn't have enough money to buy a copy. So, probably it is not well known by the residents that are here. Particular attention should be paid to the second paragraph of the staff report and I'll sit down. Thank you. IMPERIAL: Yes. Ernie Bustillos. AUDIENCE: My name is Ernie Bustillos. I live at 3644 Dubonnet Avenue, City of Rosemead. Mayor and Councilmembers, I am here tonight to speak in favor of the proposed INS pilot program and to rebut the arguments used against it as outlined in the Progress, the newspaper, September 5, 1991. In looking at the proposed program from an economic point of view, I see very little costs and many potential benefits. The only cost according to the newsletter would be the publicity. On the other hand I can see many benefits. First, the cc 9-10-91 Page #3 BUSTILLOS CONTINUES: people involved in this matter be they those admitted to the country as legal immigrants or those participating in the amnesty program will save the time, money and hassle involved in a trip to the Federal building downtown. In addition, by being able to get these forms locally some will not have to miss work, benefitting their employers and others will be able to go about their regular tasks such as shopping, benefitting people such as business people. Therefore, I see no reason not to support this program. However, I wish to examine statements others have made against such a pilot program. First, it was stated that this program would benefit illegal immigrants or illegal aliens, if one wants to use a term that dehumanizes people. This is certainly not true. There are a great many immigrants in this country who have the right to be here either through the legal immigration process or the amnesty program.. It is my understanding that about 1.5 million people have applied for permanent residency under this program in California alone; 800,000 right here in southern California. Second, the resident who complained about the poor state of health care stating that this problem is caused by too many people coming here does not understand that all agencies offering low cost health care have been swamped because health care has become less affordable for all people. Many, including the unemployed and the poor, cannot afford to go see doctors. The notion that immigrants use social services that they don't contribute to has been dispelled by all studies including those of the United States government. The argument that merely handing out forms will bring an influx of undocumented workers to the City is also not valid. According to researchers such as Alejandro Bortas and Robert Bach, the reasons that immigrants tend to settle in an area are that one, they want to live close to their jobs and two, that they tend to live near relatives and friends who can help them out. The availability of forms is hardly significant in this regard. Finally, it has been said that this is a Federal problem. However, I view it as a Rosemead problem. Latinos and Asians who can benefit from this program live in Rosemead, work in the community, shop in the community, pay taxes and have children in the schools and suffer the same social ills such as crime as other residents of the City. At the heart of this issue is fairness. As part of the community those who would benefit from this program deserve representation. They are hardworking, productive people making a contribution to this City. In the future their children will support the social welfare system of the State including health care for the elderly who will be mostly Anglo. The City Council has a choice. You can either work against the immigrant community as occurred in Monterey Park with a stance which led to turmoil in that City or work to establish good relations with this sector of the community, now. This good relationship can begin with this pilot program. Thank you. TAYLOR: Mr. Mayor. Point of information. You made reference to 1.5 million people in the State of California, 800,000 in southern California, alone? My understanding is LA County has 8 million people and they have to go downtown right now to get the forms and the assistance. Is that correct? BUSTILLOS: The people that are in the program right now go to various place. What I'm trying to point out is that the availability of the forms locally will prevent them from having to go... TAYLOR: Where else can they get the forms locally that you're aware of? BUSTILLOS: I am not an expert in the amnesty program. I can bring somebody here from the amnesty program. I have a friend who is in charge of the amnesty program at Cerritos College. If you would like to hear from him I can bring... TAYLOR: The point I'm trying to make is right now they have to go to LA. Would you say that's a true statement? BUSTILLOS: Right now, a lot of people do have to go to LA. CC 9-10-91 Page #4 TAYLOR: Where else do they go? BUSTILLOS: I'm not sure. TAYLOR: Okay. Take that 800,000 in southern California and LA and Rosemead have the forms. Give me another city that has the forms. BUSTILLOS: Well, I know that a lot of colleges have amnesty programs. TAYLOR: Give me another city that has the forms. BUSTILLOS: Okay. At this point, I do not have the name of another city... TAYLOR: The point I'm trying to make is we're told that there is no other one. And that 800,000 people in southern California... if we take just 100,000 of them in the San Gabriel valley, which incorporates probably around 1 million people, Rosemead now becomes an Immigration service not for the residents of Rosemead and that's a tremendous burden to put on to any city and that's the reason why I'm opposed to the program. It's not for the 50,000 residents of Rosemead of which we may have 1,000 or 2,000 people. That is a federal program, mandated from national standards and I will not support it because of that. And the simple forms. There's another letter here, three pages long, that I'm going to be asked to put in the Minutes of this meeting stating the reality of it which we had at the last meeting, the reality of it. You do not pass out these forms without assistance and it tells you how these forms are filled out. The hours that it takes. And when you come to our City Clerk, excuse me, the applicant comes to our City Clerk, 800,000, we'll take a 100,000. Last time it was mentioned there might be 10 or 15 a week. I disagree with that totally. Once they find a second outlet we become the clearing house for part of southern California and we don't have the funds nor the responsibility to take on a Federal program when we're not going to have the ultimate authority anyway. So, that's when you say 1.5 million that's a staggering figure. BUSTILLOS: Yeah, but they're not all here in Rosemead. TAYLOR: Well, by golly, if I could go to Rosemead, I wouldn't go to LA. BUSTILLOS: Well, it all depends on how close you live to Rosemead. We're talking about... TAYLOR: If I lived in San Pedro or if I lived in Huntington Beach or if I lived in Walnut or if I lived in Glendora I would go to Rosemead before I would go to LA. That's just the reality. So,, it may sound harsh but it isn't that easy when you take on the obligation of a Federal program, it is any citizen not Rosemead. That was all I had, Mr. Mayor. IMPERIAL: Thank you. I wanted to say something, Mr. Taylor, but I'll reserve that until after all the comments. Next speaker would be Linda Taliaferro. AUDIENCE: My name is Linda Taliaferro, 7510 E. Whitmore Street. Mr. Mayor, Councilmembers and residents, first I would like to apologize. I'm going to be doing reading tonight. My public speaking days are far behind me and all my classes so you'll have to excuse me. I've been a resident of Rosemead for the past nine years and I've worked in the area of immigration and nationality law for the past 11 years and I'd like to address the proposal regarding the INS pilot program. First, I'd like to make it clear that I believe the idea of helping the aliens of our city is one worthy of consideration. But I've read the synopsis of the plan as proposed and I am of the opinion that it would cause an undue amount of work for the Clerk in City Hall and extreme confusion for the aliens relying on assistance. The operating instructions implementing regulations and concepts of Immigration and Nationality law are very complex. An even greater factor to be taken cc 9-10-91 Page #5 TALIAFERRO CONTINUES: into consideration in providing assistance is the implementation of regulations regarding the Immigration Act of 1990 which is a sweeping reform of immigration and nationality law and at this time I'd like to just hold this up and show you this is just but one of numerous publications from the American Immigration and Nationality Lawyers Association regarding the new laws that will coming out in October. IMPERIAL: Are you with this organization? TALIAFERRO: No, I'm not. These attorneys are...I am simply a legal secretary in Immigration Law. TAYLOR: Excuse me. You do work for whom? TALIAFERRO: I work for a sole practitioner who specializes in Immigration and Nationality Law and I have for the past 11 years. TAYLOR: You're dealing directly with it so you evidently have the know how of it. TALIAFERRO: I've dealt with it through amnesty, legalization, as I left at 5:00 p.m. today. My concerns regarding such a program are as follows. Number one, the ability to provide assistance in several languages other than English. Two, the ability to provide such assistance within ten minutes. That is to determine the alien's needs. Three, the ability to assist an alien without liability to the City. And four, the ability to assist an alien without jeopardizing the alien's future rights. Regarding the City's liability. I'd like you to understand it's important to know that there's a fine line between assisting and advising, concerning questions of law. At this time, I did this Sunday, I go to Immanuel Episcopal Church in E1 Monte. That's my relationship to it. Maria Cueto, who is the Associate for Lay Ministry there. I interviewed her regarding a program that we've had at Immanuel. Immanuel has offered free immigration assistance to its members and those of the surrounding area from May 5, 1987, to the present in preparation for the immigration program at Immanuel which is basically I did not put in there is the amnesty program. That's what began May 5, 1987. Ms. Cueto attended a minimum of 30 to 40 workshop hours before commencing the program. After the commencement of the program she attended at least 10 hours a week of workshops offered by the Roman Catholic Church and the Immigration and Naturalization Service. She is fluent is spoken and written Spanish as well as English. Initially, she spent approximately 60 hours per week assisting clients and now spends approximately 15 hours per week. I just want you to take note of the numerous workshops she has attended and the practical experience that she has also had during the last four years that she has been providing the assistance. Ms. Cueto informed me that an initial meeting, that is a person walking in from the street, asking for forms, took one hour at the minimum. You may be thinking she must like to talk a lot. This is not the case. First, she stressed to me that some of the aliens had little more than a third grade education, making it difficult to ascertain the exact nature of their needs. I want you to understand that this last sentence is not based on prejudice but is stated as a fact from her personal experience. It also made it very difficult to explain to them the nature of the forms and how to prepare them. Aliens are often in need of additional documentation such as birth certificates, marriage certificates, and the like from their home countries. The ordeal of having to explain the procedure to them was burdensome and she ended up having to prepare the forms herself for their signature. Are we willing to provide such a service if it's needed? She also made it clear, as I do when I assist my personal friends, that she is not a lawyer and cannot provide legal advice nor represent them at the Immigration and Naturalization Service. Is the City willing to follow through with something they may have started by distributing a form? If an alien has been headed down the wrong path it may necessitate an interview at the Service. Many aliens would rather face deportation than go down to the Service unrepresented. Of course they could hire a private cc 9-10-91 Page #6 C. TALIAFERRO CONTINUES: attorney if they are financially sound. Uninformed aliens could at worst face deportation if they do not respond to the Service adequately and in a certain time frame, even if they are not deportable. Did you know that there even rights they have after being arrested that can affect their returning to the United States in lawful status? Moving on past the alien's rights and liabilities, I have brought with me two packets of Immigration documents. These are for the Council to do with what you'd like. The first packet that I brought with me is called a Petition for an Immediate Relative. That is a lawful permanent resident or as we know them, a Green Card holder.. Or a U.S. citizen petitioning for their spouse. The set of forms required and also the set of forms required for an Application to File Petition for Naturalization. The Relative petition has four forms. On every form that is given out by the Immigration Service it's they're printed at the Government Printing office usually the final numbered instruction on that form states how long it takes for each form to be prepared. In this case, the form that you would file to have a petition for an immediate relative, they estimate that it takes 30 minutes preparation, that is gathering the date, per response not per form. The citizenship form is three forms with 30 minutes per response. I've also brought with me another book. This is one month's mailing regarding all the new Immigration laws. I've brought this information only to help you get an idea of the complexity and the paperwork involved in the Immigration process. In closing, I'd like to say that I have not come this evening to try and deter the City from,extending aid to its aliens. I do consider this proposal a very worthwhile endeavor. I would only like to caution you regarding the start of such a program without further defining exactly what services you are going to offer. Simply passing out forms will only confuse the aliens and cause bad will among them in the City. Thank you. McDONALD: Can you tell after four years do you think the Immanuel Church over there has a successful program, are they helping? You said she works now 15 hours a week approximately. TALIAFERRO: Absolutely. Within our own parish... IMPERIAL: For your own church people. TALIAFERRO: Yes. We have brought in at least 25 families. The legalization program is actually dwindling down and at its closing. People should have already gone for their final interviews. We are now working on bringing the sons and daughters and other members of the family in. Within the community of El Monte and other people that have come to the program we've also been successful. I will have to say we have had to refer some people to Catholic Charities; some people to private attorneys. Those are people that have criminal convictions or others things that are not quite so straightforward as just gathering personal data. McDONALD: Now, that's a volunteer program, right? TALIAFERRO: Yes, it is. IMPERIAL: Catholic Charities is not. McDONALD: Do you know of any others? TALIAFERRO: I was referring to the program at Immanuel. McDONALD: No. I meant the helpers at Immanuel Church. Do you know of any other churches in the San Gabriel valley that provide that? TALIAFERRO: Not at this point because legalization has drawn to a close. Most of these programs have stopped. There is no need for them. McDONALD: Because they were under the amnesty... all those people who signed up under the amnesty. CC 9-10-91 Page #7 • P-J TALIAFERRO: Yes. Those figures were the amount of people applying for amnesty. McDONALD: Do you personally see a need for communities or other sources for this type of assistance? TALIAFERRO: I see the need based on making the 'residents of Rosemead know that they have some place to go, that the city actually cares for them. Like I said, I am not trying to walk the fence. It's just that the program needs to have much more detail in my opinion to it. If you're not careful...I mean these are all personal experiences... you will turn people away if you cannot answer their questions, if you do not act like you know what you're talking about. The majority of the people that will come to you will be illegal. With maybe knowing already that they have some way to immigrate legally. If you do not have the competence that they're looking for they will go away and no one will come. Then you won't have to worry about it. McDONALD: What if we had a church that had volunteers that would be willing to go to the workshops and provide that as a volunteer program here in the City? Outside of the government. TALIAFERRO: I would think that the aliens would be more comfortable going to a quote safe haven. The city is a government entity. There's a lot of fear involved at certain levels. You must understand. There are different levels of everything but a lot of them are fearful of that type of thing. IMPERIAL: Let me ask you a question. Were you aware of the Immigration and Naturalization Service office at Flair Park? TALIAFERRO: No. I really don't... actually you know what, there was. I was never exactly sure where the address is. That was a legalization office. That has been closed. I have the list ...there are four legalization offices open in the area. IMPERIAL: I'd like a copy of that but were you aware that the only thing that they did there was hand out forms and that was it? There was a lady by the name of Betty Gladwill who had worked with me. She was a secretary for me on active duty with the Army and went to Immigration. She was at that office and I called her on several occasions and she says I'm sorry, Jay all we do is pass out forms here. That's it. Were you aware of that? TALIAFERRO: Begging to differ with you. I had called that office. Being in Immigration law we had the numbers to all of their offices. I never questioned what street they were on. So, I don't know. That was just known as the E1 Monte office. Now I know it was on Flair. They would call and answer questions. They... interviews were held there. Fingerprints were taken there. People were sent cards. I mean there was a full-fledged legalization program running out of there. There were ex-immigration officials that headed up a lot of these offices. There's an office... IMPERIAL: Then they lied to me then when they told me they couldn't do anything but pass out forms. TALIAFERRO: Perhaps she was a little bit busy that day and didn't feel like being bothered. They're human, too. McDONALD: Mr. Mayor. IMPERIAL: Mr. Bruesch and then you, Mr. McDonald. BRUESCH: I have two quick questions. Ms. Taliaferro, first of all again for elucidation the amnesty program was a special process, was it not? TALIAFERRO: Absolutely. CC 9-10-91 Page #8 9 BRUESCH: Okay. Secondly, in your work with the INS do you find people coming in that have been misinformed by peers and family about the legal aspects of legalization and so forth and so on? TALIAFERRO: That is commonly known as the rumor syndrome. And we get it-all the time and yes I am well aware of that. We will have someone come and tell me but I was told by my brother-in-law that someone did that for them. BRUESCH: Is there right now a form, a brochure that the INS produces, I know that Boulder, Colorado place sends out form after form and brochure after brochure that sets down the misinformation and the correct information in various languages so that a person that has been misinformed can have a simple brochure in their hand that gives them guidance on to what they have to do, what is their next step and so forth and so on. TALIAFERRO: I have to confess. I know that there are pamphlets available regarding the I-9 which is the employment... employer liability for hiring an illegal. What an alien should do if they think those rights have been violated. I'm not reading if you're looking for like a one-step type immigration thing? BRUESCH: Question and answer type thing. TALIAFERRO: Yeah. They have it on different topics that is available. The Department of Labor would have the pamphlet for your rights as an alien to work. Immigration? I don't know. I mean it's just something we don't use. BRUESCH: What I'm getting at is I have been confronted with this misinformation quite a few times where families have said well I can't do that and we find out later they can do that. TALIAFERRO: Again, it's really hard to...I see exactly what you're saying but the reason may be it's so difficult to explain because it's so confusing. I mean even just saying I'm a US citizen and I want to bring my husband is not as simple as black and white. BRUESCH: I realize that but we just got done spending 10 to 15 minutes talking about symbols on trash cans to help elucidate a problem. Why can't the Federal government have a simple brochure that would ask and answer... TALIAFERRO: If the Federal government has in one month sent out all this stuff to implement, to let attorneys, this is to attorneys, this is mailed to attorneys, this is not mailed to the general public, I daresay they cannot send out a pamphlet that will tell you how to immigrate to the United States. That's the best I can do with that question. McDONALD: Mr. Mayor. 'You said that there's still four offices, legalization offices? TALIAFERRO: Yes, there are. For people to have their final interviews. There is one is East LA on Soto. McDONALD: Okay. And then at the end of the final interviews you believe these offices then will be closed? TALIAFERRO: They will close. I don't know if there's a misunderstanding or not but those legalization offices are only open for legalization that is amnesty cases. They do not handle any other type of immigration. IMPERIAL: I know of the one in East LA. I called there for a constituent in our community was given the wrong information and after the deadline passed this individual was no longer qualified because she didn't file within that period of time. I know about all this. CC 9-10-91 Page #9 • • TALIAFERRO: Well you know what? The Immigration Service also will ...the Immigration service is not going to ask you questions regarding your immigration. You ask the questions, they give the answer. They aren't going to go any further than that. TAYLOR: Mr. Mayor. I'm puzzled about the E1 Monte office. That wasn't put in there for amnesty? It was a general office? TALIAFERRO: No, it was a legalization office. It was simply for amnesty. That's why it's closed. TAYLOR: Just amnesty. It isn't anything to assist the normal immigration process? TALIAFERRO: No. TAYLOR: And you know of no other office other than LA that is open year around for...I mean that's amazing in one sense. TALIAFERRO: In the Federal level, no. IMPERIAL: Was that the one that was above the California Medical Group? TALIAFERRO: I don't know. Like I said, the E1 Monte office, that's how I referred to it. There were so many. I mean they were in North Hollywood, they were all over. Like I said, the only other place I know is my church offers it. But I'm not soliciting. TAYLOR: Mr. Mayor. I believe... it's not a question of being opposed to a legal process. It's just an extreme burden, especially for a city the size of Rosemead. One of my first reactions is let's get hold of our Congressman in this area and find some Federal input because to me it's rather disgusting that like the young gentleman said before, if there's 1.5 million and there's 800,000 in southern California, the Federal government ultimately controls the whole program. I find that hard to conceive they can get away with this and once we start doing it it just compounds it. We don't have the authority once the forms are... as the lady stated that's 30 minutes per question. IMPERIAL: Mr. Taylor. Before we go any further with this now and there were three of us that sat there in that meeting with Immigration people. There was the City Clerk, Andy Katz and myself. Now, unless I had a case of amnesia I wasn't aware that we were talking about starting a full-blown immigration program here in the City of Rosemead, number one. Number two, I wasn't aware of the fact that we were going to service all of southern California, that was our responsibility. I wasn't aware of that, okay? Now, what I am aware of and the City Clerk and Mr. Katz can back me up is we only wanted to handle the forms. Now, we were told you will not be an Immigration office; you will not have the ability to answer the questions; you will just be able to go through a motion called handing out forms. Now, the reason I thought this was such a great thing and I made mistakes in my life, I guess this is one of them, is because right in my own family my mother-in-law and father-in-law and I know a lot of others have made many trips. We're talking about people that don't read and write the English language; are not accustomed to our customs here, okay? And they catch three and four buses to go downtown so they stand shoulder-to-shoulder with somebody for four damn hours to get a form, okay? Now, we're not talking about illegal aliens. We're talking about people that have a right to be here and our citizens which we are trying to help. I think that's our purpose. To make life better... TAYLOR: Mr. Mayor. IMPERIAL: ...Wait a minute now you've had your turn. You let me have mine, Mr. Taylor, okay? I sat in that meeting and I'm saying this. We're blowing this whole damn thing out of proportion. All we wanted cc 9-10-91 Page #10 • • IMPERIAL CONTINUES: to do was handle forms. Sure, there's other places around, okay? But the one here is downtown in the Federal building. The next one, the office in E1 Monte was sent to Riverside. That's where it's at right now. I'm looking at a book here called People Who Can Help and it gives every Immigration installation within Los Angeles County and I haven't found a free one in here yet. And if you want to hear heartbreak hotel go down to where these attorneys and what have you take people downtown for their court hearings and what you'll probably hear is I'm sorry, Mrs. Mendez, I'm sorry Mr. Marquez, after they got two grand out of them. It's disgusting. And all I want to do and maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm stupid for trying to do it, is trying to help the people in our community. We have a tally sheet. This is a pilot program, not until the end of the earth. This is a pilot program that says 30 days is fine. We have a tally sheet that shows us who came in, where they came from, what their National origin and everything like that is. Can this City go broke in 30 days, I'm asking you? Thank you. Now, Mr. Taylor. TAYLOR: Mr. Mayor. You have again over simplified it.. Ask the lady working in it. Who gives out forms? Who gives out these forms with no assistance? TALIAFERRO: That's what I did also bring with me. The forms are distributed by the Government Printing Office,.the superintendent of documents. The forms are available to the public for purchase. I also have the phone number and name of another company in San Francisco that will sell you a form, one form if you want one form. Mr. Mayor, I'd like to address your statement. I realize that your cause is just. My fear is that the goodwill that you want to extend toward the aliens in your city will turn around and hit you. IMPERIAL: Are you saying you can buy this form? Why did Immigration tell me I couldn't give no more than three to an attorney? TALIAFERRO: As I did tactfully say, I Immigration but I have to stay in line you'll look at the bottom of the form, office. Any government publication is for sale and I have the phone number a them on your VISA. mean I do not work for here. They are for sale. If it's a government printing for sale. And these forms are nd the address. You can charge TAYLOR: Excuse me. In fairness to what Mr. Imperial, with what the Mayor is saying, you're saying a form. Is that a preliminary form that starts the ball rolling? TALIAFERRO: No. Any form that you would like to have on this list of approximately I don't know I counted it this morning. These are the ones for sale. TAYLOR: It looks like there's 40 forms on there. TALIAFERRO: I think there's about 50 or something. There's an equally large list of forms that are free. See, the point I'm trying to bring is I have something about everything here in these books. It's just incredibly complex. And the misinformation that you say you have received from so many Immigration offices I would be fearful that the aliens would receive the same misinformation from the City of Rosemead and I wouldn't want the City talked about like the Immigration Service is. McDONALD: Mr. Mayor. Ms. Taliaferro. How many forms would an immigrant to become a citizen if he didn't have any problems? Approximately how many? TALIAFERRO: Now, see this is already by you asking me these questions is a perfect example of what I'm trying to say. Now, are you thoroughly and this is not questioning your intelligence, are you thoroughly familiar... are you talking about a lawful permanent resident or are you actually talking about a person that already has their green card and wants to be a citizen of the United States? CC 9-10-91 Page #11 • McDONALD: I have my green card and I want to be a citizen of the United States. TALIAFERRO: I think it's four forms. I have done this for 11 years and I still have to count and get it together every time. McDONALD: I don't have a green card. TALIAFERRO: You don't have a green card? You're out of luck. You can't be a citizen right exactly yet. McDONALD: So, the first thing I have to do is get a green card then, right? TALIAFERRO: Then I have an 11-page questionnaire form I happen to use in my office that will help determine what avenue of Immigration you qualify for if any. TAYLOR: Mr..Mayor. A question to Mrs. Taliaferro. I believe that the other churches in the area were providing a very similar service if not the same? TALIAFERRO: Quite frankly, I don't know for a fact. I don't know everything. There may and there may not have been. I have no idea. I know that were some offices set up quote legal assistance offices. Get you a green card office. And they would charge a sum of money and help a person through their legalization process. Many of those offices that passed out forms and filled out documents are now being sued. IMPERIAL: I went to St. Anthony's which handles all of Rosemead and a big part of San Gabriel and what have you, Mr. Taylor and the reference was to the Catholic Charities down on 3rd street I believe it was I went to? TALIAFERRO: I think the reason you're not going to find too many free things is also just giving the information I've given you. I mean another point of interest. Those forms that the City would like to pass out because everything is so new the filing fees on them are not even correct. TAYLOR: What are an example of the filing fees? I mean it sounds... the people that when they fill out these forms whether they go to...if we give them the forms here.... TALIAFERRO: They're going to still have to come up with some money. TAYLOR: No. We're not getting into that program. That's what we have to make clear. I think it's a trap in one sense. We're supposed to stay out of that process. Why would we be taking fees when we're handing out forms for them to take them to LA? TALIAFERRO: No. You wouldn't be taking fees. The Immigration and Naturalization Service would be taking the fee. That's who the only person you would pay it to. But nevertheless the aliens would be coming looking for help, okay? If they had the financial wherewithal they would have gone and hired an attorney. I would think that ...how about a petition to say you're my husband. I want you to come. That's $75. Plus you have to get fingerprints. I'm sure Temple City Sheriff does them for I think $5 a card or something like that. Plus you have to get green card photos and by the way those instructions have changed, too, if anybody of you have those instructions. TAYLOR: Once we obtain that doesn't that still have to go down to LA? TALIAFERRO: But it can be mailed. It can be mailed. Some things are mailed in. Some other processes, the alien will have to go downtown. TAYLOR: This isn't a question of what the Mayor's proposing to do. We need a service. But it's a County-wide service, not State-wide. CC 9-10-91 Page #12 TAYLOR CONTINUES: It's just to me a terrible imposition to have residents from any of the communities come into the City of Rosemead which you do it as a profession for a living and you're enlightening all of us with the amount of information that you have and the forms that are required and if that's a month's mailing to the attorneys then who does it in City Hall to make sure they're giving the proper information? TALIAFERRO: Well see. That's my point. I have over documented to make a point. But the simplest process has many questions. The simplest... again referring back to I'd like to make my husband get his green card. You can go on ahead and file those documents very naively and say the husband is here illegally. Immigration is now becoming a little more serious granting, knocking on doors, for an illegal husband is not their first priority but they do get down to everything. And that alien would be deported unless they sought legal advice and figured out what to do. It's just a very scary proposition dealing with someone's future and not having the backup to be able to follow through on it. TAYLOR: It just defies my logic why it only has to be in LA as far as they talk about a new general hospital out here to service the San Gabriel valley people, things of that nature because of the need for it and this is such a large need I think that maybe the adjoining cities could get together and demand this from their Congressmen and such. That's what they're there for. TALIAFERRO: I would think that would be proper. The Immigration Service like everybody4else has been crying broke. They don't have money. There's a brand new facility in Laguna Nigel that they've now built. The Immigration Service has become much more automated, computerized. I would think that if a couple of cities got together that could be a viable solution. Put it back in their hands. The need is definitely there without sounding redundant I'm just fearful for us taking the responsibility for that need. IMPERIAL: I was stationed in that office in Laguna Nigel. It's called the big white elephant. Okay? Immigration as well as Department of the Interior and what have you are in that building that would house normally because it's one and two tenths miles around. That's how big that building is and it's built in the side of the hill. It had a capacity for 5500 workers in there and it's way, way under utilized. I sat in the office with Mr. Katz and the City Clerk and I waited to talk to Mr. Mosherat, the head of Immigration. This lady was in there all frustrated and all she wanted was a passport. She was an American citizen. It said... it was told to her it would take three weeks for her to send that form in and get it back. All she wanted was a passport. She wanted to go down to Laguna Nigel and those people wouldn't give her the address down there. So, consequently she was beside herself because she needed to make this trip in a week and a half and she couldn't wait three weeks. So, I gave her the address because I happened to be stationed there at one time. Okay? And that's... I'm just bringing this up and trying to make a point with you also. They're undermanned. We're not trying to do the Federal government's job. You know that they're undermanned with the thousands and thousands upon people coming across that border and some have been given the authority for green card. They're just undermanned. And the.question I'm asking this Council is that just because they are undermanned and they can't do their job properly does that mean that we just have to let it slip by the wayside? Okay? That's the question I'm asking but again... CLARK: Mr. Mayor. I have a question and kind of a comment as far as I'm trying to get exactly what we're getting at. If we're going to just be handing out forms and not giving any assistance then I don't see that we're really helping. If there's a way that we could inform the people where to get the forms such as this. If we could get Mrs.' Taliaferro to give the address of this person that they can order them from. Okay? If that could be posted in our City Hall and they could come in and see that they can order form number such and such and such cc 9-10-91 Page #13 CLARK CONTINUES: and such. Is that what we're talking about doing? Are we talking about giving out forms or are we talking about assisting them. If we're talking about giving out forms I don't see why we couldn't just let them know where to get them. Okay? If we're talking about assisting I'm frightened that we will get into an area that we're hurting the person more than helping them. My first reaction to giving out forms I'm thinking in very simplistic terms and I'm thinking that the IRS, that we can get right over there at the Post Office. We can get a 1040 and if you have dividends you need what? schedule A and maybe five forms. Okay? It's apparently and I'm learning a whole lot just this evening, it's apparently a much more complex process than that. What.'..a lot of different problems and I would be very frightened to be giving the person a wrong information. If we're giving assistance and telling someone that they are...telling them how to do something and as she pointed out if you gave them.wrong information and the INS comes and finds an illegal husband and deports him...that could ruin a life. You're talking about a family. You're not just talking about a form here. IMPERIAL: I don't recall ever saying in this proposal of mine that we were going to assist anybody with the exception of handing out forms. I don't recall ever that. CLARK: Well, then I don't understand what the difference is...I mean if we can tell them where to get a form, okay. Then how you give out a form without giving assistance? If they don't know which form to get? I'd like Mrs. Taliaferro to comment on how many forms there are. I mean I'm thinking of 1040s and A, B, C, and D. IMPERIAL: Sixty-three forms if I can recall, all told, for different problems. CLARK: So, do we just have them in a little rack out in the foyer and they come and take forms? TALIAFERRO: May I just give you a few more papers. I had one other form. I've probably driven the final nail in the coffin about how I feel about how much stuff there is. We're starting a new quota system. I'm sure that everyone is somewhat familiar with the fact that we allow so many people from each country to come based on however they want to come. Very simple. Our old quota system had five categories. This is the sample chart for the new quota system, thirteen now. McDONALD: Mr. Mayor. Personally, I wouldn't like to start a partial service of any kind. I would make the motion that you as the representative of the City of Rosemead here put together a resolution for the next meeting and that we as an effort become the leader in trying to provide support with all the other cities around here and march on Martinez and have them get an office in the San Gabriel valley. I think we can do it as the whole San Gabriel valley. No matter where you live in San Gabriel valley it's much easier to come and work in this area rather than'to go in LA or have to go down to San Pedro or something. But I think we can create enough political power because it is happening here in the San Gabriel valley. They say there's 800,000 people right here in southern California and we make up a large portion of that. I think we can make an effort and we might get something done in that case. I can see your heart in it Mr. Mayor and I can see where you're coming from it's just that if we think we might be able to do something we ought to do the whole thing. We ought to get the Federal government here to open up an office and if we get the whole entire San Gabriel valley supporting that system we could even make some effort and provide a place for them to do it. One of the cities could provide room. But other than that I think it's really the only way you'd really want to do a program where you're providing the whole everything for them rather than just handing out a slip that really doesn't give them anything other than the piece of paper that maybe they don't understand when you give it to them in the first place. CC 9-10-91 Page #14 BRUESCH: Mr. Mayor. First of all I want to thank Mrs. Taliaferro for bringing the information. It was very enlightening for me. I mean I have a comment to make to you and I think you'll understand what I'm talking about. Having gone overseas I've found it much easier to get assistance with my passport in a foreign embassy than I did in our own office down here. TALIAFERRO: That's one misconception that I wanted to straighten out. The INS has nothing to do with American passports. BRUESCH: I know. But I'm just saying that it's easier to get a help on your passport in a foreign embassy than it is at home here. I would concur with the idea that Mr. McDonald has and in fact I'll go one step further. If it's the liking of the City, my colleagues here, this week is the San Gabriel Valley Association of Cities which I am. the delegate, I could bring that up as part of an agenda item to inform them that we are going to take this step and we are going to send out this resolution to other cities to see if they would support it, also. Am I correct.in assuming that we want a concerted effort to have an INS service in the San Gabriel valley for our people? Is this what we're aiming at? McDONALD: I would think that if the Mayor had this concept to begin with I think he could be much prouder of getting the Federal government and having gotten them to come into the San Gabriel valley and open up an office that is a full service to them. I would think he would be much prouder of that accomplishment. IMPERIAL: My concept, Mr. McDonald, is helping people and I don't give a damn how I do it. McDONALD: Yeah. But I think you'd be prouder if you had the whole service rather than just a partial handout. TAYLOR: Mr. Mayor. I think Mr. Bruesch's comment is well taken. Have him go ahead and start the ball rolling from that end of it. It just provides that much more information. IMPERIAL: Is this before or after I let the last person speak? Robbie Nutt, you're the last one. Would you like to speak or would you rather...? What would you like to do? AUDIENCE: Robbie Nutt, 6157 Ivar (Avenue, Temple City). I have had a very personal experience with the INS. My son is from Pakistan. He came over here on Visitor's Visa. Was here his six months and was due to renew his Visa and like many other things it fell by the wayside. So, a month later we recognized the fact that this had not been renewed. So, we had to go downtown LA and this was during the time of the amnesty program when there were thousands and thousands of immigrants. We went to the Immigration office. The lines were three deep totally around the building and if you've been there you know how large the building is. We stood there all day. Didn't even begin to get to the front door let alone inside. We came back. We tried telephoning. The lines were busy, busy, busy. By this time my son is illegally here in the United States. About four months later the Immigration office was opened on Flair Drive. We went there immediately. There we obtained the forms. We'd had no knowledge of. how to fill them out. We were told at Immigration that we would have to obtain a lawyer, an immigration lawyer. That cost us almost $3,000. After that, he was interviewed at the Immigration office in Flair Drive and eventually was given his permit to remain in the United States. Without those forms he would still be an illegal. He had to have these forms and there was only one place, one place that we could get them and that was from downtown LA. What the situation is today I do not know. I don't know how many immigrants are in the Country. How many it takes to go downtown LA. I only know during that particular time, almost five years ago. But I do believe that people do appreciate a place to go to get the forms. Once they get the forms then they can go and get the assistance legally that they need to have in order to remain in the United States. Without the forms it's impossible to do anything. That was my experience. cc 9-10-91 Page #15 • TAYLOR: Mr. Mayor. Question to Mrs. Nutt. As far as the comment was made that you could mail in for these forms. Does that seem justified to you that if people had that information they could mail downtown and get them? NUTT: Not at that time. At that time we could not mail. They would not mail them. First of all, you couldn't even get through on the telephone to request anything. You had to go in person because I guess of the thousands and thousands and thousands at that time who were under the amnesty program. But if they mail them today, that I do not know. I know that our time they didn't. IMPERIAL: I believe the only place you're going to get them and this, the addresses I got from this lady here is Glencomb Immigration Forms and that's in San Francisco and US Government Book Store, ARCO Plaza, Los Angeles. Those are the only two places that you're going to get them and I think you have to go down there and buy them, don't you? Immigration will not mail you anything. Okay. Thank you. TAYLOR: Mr. Mayor. I think Mr. McDonald's comment, suggestion was we bring it back at the next meeting, a resolution to try to get these other cities to apply pressure. BRUESCH: I would move that we direct staff to formulate a resolution incorporating Mr. McDonald's comments. Do I need a motion on that or is it just direction? McDONALD: Well, I kind of made a motion to begin with. If you'd just second it we'll take all that into consideration and once we move and second it I'd like to say a word. . IMPERIAL: There's been a motion and a second ...Mr. Nunez we have a vote on...Okay. We have a vote on, Mr. Nunez. We're right in the middle of it. All right, Mr. Nunez. McDONALD: Mr. Mayor. While he's coming up here. I would... if this does pass in this format have you put together a little taskforce of interested citizens as well as I would be willing to go out and talk to the other Councils to see if we get some support and once we get that all stacked up, march over to Martinez's office and see if we can get a hearing on this. BRUESCH: I would too. And I would like to use the offices of the SGVAC. That might be the spearhead. IMPERIAL: Well, I can tell you that Montebello is interested but that's as far as it went. E1 Monte said thank you but no thank you, can't help you at this time. The City of South E1 Monte said no thank you, we've got problems of our.own. Monterey Park seemed very interested and they wanted to see what happened in Rosemead. So... TAYLOR: Mr. Mayor. Let's put that resolution together and send it to them and that's pretty embarrassing if they can't support a community program that supports Federal assistance, I'd like to see them turn it down. They're not going to do it. They're not that dumb, is the only way to put it. AUDIENCE: (Juan Nunez, but did not give name or address) Yes. I could rest my case with what the lady spoke. But you know you're going to get into legalities as she mentioned and from there on you're on your own. IMPERIAL: Call for the question. Please vote. Yes: Bruesch, Taylor, Imperial, Clark, McDonald No: None Absent: None Abstain:. None cc 9-10-91 Page #16 BRUESCH: Mr. Mayor. I just want to make a comment. I've made this comment before, I know but our legal, not illegal, our legal immigrant problem is much more widespread than people understand and I'll give you an example. We still have on record I believe it's 77 different languages of origin, countries of origin, in my school district alone, including the fact that we had four Russian immigrants, legal immigrants, enrolled in our schools. So, I mean as these upheavals are taking place throughout the world we are going to have more influx of all sorts legal immigrants because people, the free flow of people, is going to continue. ' IMPERIAL: Mr. Bruesch. We have a refugee program at the West San Gabriel Valley Consortium that handles people from all over the world, that's Russians, you name it. They come from all over the world. There's a very definite need for this program in the area. That's where it first came into being in my mind. Why can't we do something? I knew of Robbie's case. I knew of a case of a staff person, a case of my own and I figured there was a definite need. Now, I just want to say also that I feel this is a service this City has to give to its constituents. Now, there's a difference of opinion and I can accept that difference of opinion. I don't feel, you know, it's like...I can remember when I first went into scouting in the Boy Scouts. I looked at that hill that we were supposed to climb and I said I'll never make it. I'll never make it until I decided to walk that hill and finally made it up to the top with a little bit of encouragement and I'm saying that as long as we establish a need that's all that's necessary and we will get the help from Immigration but they're not going to give us any help with their budget problems and what have you until such time as we establish .a need. I figured that this City could pass out forms for 30 days, run a tally on where they're coming from, and go to Immigration and say this is what we've done and we can't afford to take this kind of beating and so we're going to have to stop this program will you help us? That would force them to at least put somebody out here maybe once or twice a month. And we'd get that service in the area. I didn't think that 30 days was enough to worry about, enough to put us in a bind but if we're going to feel that that's going to be a problem I just want to go on record as saying that I'm really sorry that this City couldn't take a more affirmative action than what we are. Thank you. TAYLOR: Mr. Mayor. I'd like this entire conversation in the Minutes verbatim because I believe this Council did support you and I think it's much more appropriate because now it's not just Rosemead. It's going to the San Gabriel valley and that's the only way our Federal legislators respond. If Rosemead did it they'd give us a nice thank you letter and that's it but they need a kick in the pants every so often. IMPERIAL: Mr. Taylor, I hope like hell you're right so I can come back and apologize to these people. As long as we've got a program that works that's all I care about. TAYLOR: I think we may have jumped ahead of the game to get something even better faster by getting the other cities to support it. END VERBATIM DIALOGUE VI. STATUS REPORTS - None VII. MATTERS FROM OFFICIALS A. COST PROPOSAL FOR BULK MAILING ADDRESS LABELS This item was deferred to the next regular meeting for more information regarding formulation of an accurate listing of Rosemead addresses, excluding those in South San Gabriel. B. COUNCILMAN BRUESCH CC 9-10-91 Page #17 1. Was disturbed that a market did not get to locate in Rosemead at the Builder's Square location. C. MAYOR IMPERIAL 1. Asked about the new schedule for the Shopper Shuttle. There being no further action to be taken at this time, the meeting was adjourned at 10:17 p.m. to September 17, 1991, at 7:00 p.m. in the Conference Room of City Hall for a joint meeting with the Rosemead Planning Commission. Respectfully submitted: APPROVED: L ' !N~ 2,v✓ G~G(iZrl-'LP~i~/ C~~Z-c-~~t C' Clerk MAYOR CC 9-10-91 Page #18