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CC - 05-09-78CITY O FOSSEAIEA:D I3,` T MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE ROSEMEAD CITY COUNCIL MAY 9, 1978 AT 8:00 P. M. The Regular Meeting of the Rosemead City Council was called to order by Mayor Taylor in the Council Chambers of City Hall, 8838 E. Valley, Rosemead, California at 8:00 P.M. The Pledge to the Flag was led by Councilman Imperial. The Invocation was delivered by Rev. Mathis, Church of Christ. ROLL CALL OF OFFICERS: Present: Councilmen Hunter, Imperial, Cichy, Tury & Taylor Absent: None Ex-Officio: Tripepi, Dickey, Dilkes, Foutz, and Poochigian APPROVAL OF MINUTES - April 25, 1978- Regular Meeting MOTION BY COUNCILMAN HUNTER, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN IMPERIAL that the Minutes of the Council Meetingsof April 25, 1978 be approved. Vote resulted: UP.ON',ROL-LoCALli*ALL COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT VOTED AYE. The Mayor declared said motion duly carried and so ordered. CITIZEN PARTICIPATION A. Mervyn Kennedy, 9139 Marshall Street, a resident from De Adalena Street called him and stated that Rosemead is one of the few cities that does not have rental subsidy for its senior citizens, and requested that the Council consider the possibility of this type of help so that our senior citizens do not have to move to another city for this subsidy. LEGISLATION A. RESOLUTION NO. 78-22 - CLAIMS & DEMANDS - May 9, 1978 RESOLUTION NO, 78-22 A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ROSEMEAD ALLOWING CERTAIN CLAIMS & DEMANDS IN THE SUM OF $199,967.69 NUMBERED 26,737 THROUGH 26,817 INCLUSIVELY MOTION BY COUNCILMAN TURY, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN IMPERIAL that Resolution No. 78-22 be adopted and the reading in full be waived. Vote resulted: UPON ROLL CALL ALL COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT VOTED AYE. The Mayor declared said motion duly carried and so ordered. B. APPROVAL OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON'S HELIPORT Frank G. Tripepi, City Manager, this Conditional Use Permit has been approved by the Planning Commission and normally CUP's are not brought to the City Council, but the State Department of Transportation has requested that the Council make a finding and approve the action taken by the Planning Commission. CM 5-9-78 Page #1 6 0 MOTION BY COUNCILMAN TURY „ SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN HUNTER that Conditional Use Permit #77-119 be approved. Vote resulted: UPON ROLL CALL ALL COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT VOTED AYE. The Mayor declared said motion duly carried and so ordered. C. RESOLUTION NO. 78-23 PUBLIC FUNDING OF ABORTIONS Mayor Taylor: There is one item that I asked to have put on t`c the Agenda from the last meeting and that pertains to the issue of Public Funding, and I believe that most of you or all of you should have a copy of the new Resolution. I believe Mr. Tury and Mr. Imperial as they stated the last time, the other resolution was too broad and not clear. I would hope that this particular resolution, it simply states that this City Council considers the pro-life side of the issue and it simply states that inetheslast paragraph that the City Council of the City of Rosemead hereby sup- ports the rights of the unborn and opposes the use of public fund- ing of abortions. I would hope that Excuse me Mr...If Mr. Tury or Mr. Imperial had any objections.... C/M Cichy: I have one or two questions. Mr. Mayor: Yes C/M Cichy: While I,am, my own person beliefs are in line with a resolution somewhat contained here, I find it, while the resolution is short it surely isn't simple. I would probably start in the second paragraph where it begins "WHEREAS" the United States Supreme Court declared that local governments may actively support pro-life movement with regards to the decision of the Supreme Court and the case that's cited here, this is obviously not the United States Supreme Court, it may be an Appellate Court. Mr. Mayor: Excuse me, Mr. Cichy. It is the United States Supreme Court. C/M Cichy: Let me finish, because the opinion that is written the member is not on the Supreme Court of the United States, so I would presume, it is an appellate courtcdf some justice that's sit- ting in lieu or something or it may be a misspelling somewhere along the line. Needless to say, though the object probably in the de- claration in reference to local governments probably pertains to local governments that had to do with financing and the particular aspect on abortion for public financing under the health clause. I don't know what this particular decision stands for, and I think we should probably have a copy of that decision, if we are going to include something that's cited by Justice Maherooftthe Supreme Court. I don't know. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Dilkes would you clarify........ . C/M Cichy: Let me finish•s I still have the floor, and I be- lieve we should have a copy of it. Second, in the next paragraph it says "WHEREAS" the people of the United States--are seeking direc- tion from their elected officials as to whether election abortion should be allowed to continue. I don't believe that this is a Constitutional Amendmentttat this time, and usually that's the means by where the people of the United States, meaning all 50 states, would seek some type of direction. I am sure that it is a contro- versial issue and many people have their own opinions on both sides where it is moral, religious, or health standards. The next paragraph states the California Supreme Court failed to take into consideration the rights of the unborn in ruling that elective abortions are legal under California Law. My only concern never having tried a case that dealt with this particular law, but my feelings about the California Supreme Court and their liberal interpretations are that was probably one of the primary things that they took into consideration, but again, we do not have copies of the ruling or rulings whether they are at the local level or at the Supreme Court level or Appellate level in California. So I would have to say that who is making the statement as to what the Calif- ornia Supreme Court rules. Two paragraphs down, it says the City Council of the City of Rosemeadv:wishes to support human rights. CM 5-9-78 Page #2 I am sure we do, the same as Jimmy Carter, excuse me,our President wishes to support human rights throughout the world. But then it goes on to say especially for those human beings unable to speak for themselves. I don't want to criticize this Council or any other Council, but many times City Councils and elected officials only express the wishes who go go the polls, and too many times we overlook those people who are often left out, those people and minors in many respects. Iad have to agree with that paragraph but the next paragraph is something that I think should probably be eliminated unless there can be some substantiation. The Declar- ation of Independence when it was written was to justify the what was then the Coloniesin their separation from Great Britain and I have taught Constitutional Law and I practiced Criminal Law and I have found very few arguments under the Declaration of Independence that would substantiate this particular view. It is true that there is arguments under the Constitution of the United States against the right to use public funds. However, that is not the present-holding and the interpretation of the Supreme Court is "yes" they can do it and they are the ones who interpret the Con- stitution. I don't agree with them, but on the other hand, I think that there are a few problems here. And lastly, it says, "The City Council of the City of Rosemead hereby supports the rights of unborn and opposes the use of public funding of abortions. I. think we have to get back to another problem werhave there, with regards to the rights of those particular people who are victims of rape., who are victims of mental deficiences of various catagories, I don't think that that particular, I think that that statement is too broad and I think that we probably need is to find out the justification of each one of these paragraphs through substantia- tion and documentation. Because it is a moral and religious issue, I don't think we should have staff time be, I don't think they should be responsible for researching it. By all means if the Council wishes to present a resolution that can be as compli- cated as this is while being short in nature should also be pre- pared to supply the documentation and because it is of such interest to everyone I am sure that reimbursement for any copies of those documentations, the City Council would be happy to vote for. I would, myself, at the same time, we should probably ask the oppo- nents of this type of Resolution to present their documentation. While, it is short, and it is much shorter than the other one, I still say, that I will vote for a proper resolution, but this one, is very complicated. Mayor: Mr. Dilkes, would you read the legal title of the case, the name of the case=and not the judge. Mr. Dilkes, O.K., I don't know the precise name of the caseF appar- ently the plaintiff's name was Maher, and I take it there is a com- panion case with the plaintiff's name Poelker, I candidly concede that I am not familiar with either case. This not beingaan area of the law that I specialize in. The citation is to something called the United States Law Week. The official citation would be two series of volumes called the United States Reports. It would be a very simple matter for me to at least supply the correct ccitation and name. And to my recollection there is, I seem to recall that the Califorina Suprme Court took a look at this area about two years ago, but I truly don't know the name of that case, although I sus- pect it too, can be located very quickly. Mayor: O. K. One point going through this particular resolution. As I stated it is simply refers to the fact that local governing bodies can take a'pro-life stand and that's all that it says and it's simple and it says that we support the rights of the unborn and oppose the use of public funds for abortion. Now, let me ask you this particular question, Mr. Cichy, there are so many stages in life beginning during a pregnancy there would be one stage which is referred to a zigo just a simple growing of the child inside the mothers womb and it gets to the stage of 'a fetus. So science has definitely confirmed these two stages. The next stage at birth would be an infant or new born whatever you choose to calleit, then it would get into a child or baby, then it would get into a teenager adolescent, young adult, middle aged adult, senior citizen. Every- one of those are atstage of life. You cut the life at any point no matter which point, senior citizen, teenage, whatever, you are still taking a human life. Science has proven that approximately 18 days after conception during pregnancy this individual has a separate CM 5-9-78 Page #3 has a separate heart beat, approximately 28 days they detect separ- ate brain waves. It is classified as an individual being simply sus- taining its growth. I have a nine month old son right now, they say it must be born viable. If no one took care of, picked up, fed or loved and cherished my nine month old son right now, that baby would not be viable by itself. Put it in a room somewhere with all the cannedofood in the world all and all the cereal eventually, I would say that baby would die. Going on back to the term of pregnancy, it is simply another stage of life and as I mentioned at the last meet- ing Colliers Encyclopedia, World Book, Britannica, Americana, Colliers, the high schools, any school that has a biology course or science course will say that this is a human life. As far as this resolution it simply says that we are opposed to the funding. Right now, inci-, dentally, from the last meeting I have just started picking up the daily paper, picking out the items pertaining to this. The State Legislature is now withholding budget approval because of this par- ticular funding of abortions. There is a current $;4,000,000 they want to pay for this years abortions with additional #34,000,000 for next years funding and as of right now it is being held,~in com- mittee because the majority of the legislators are pro-life and this resolution is simply to say to those legislators both the Assembly and the Senate that we do support this stand. If this human life, most of you must have seen the Holocaust series on Television, and there is comments in the newspaper about people who have actually seen this going on and some of the comments and personal people who have seen them,gee, if only someone wbuld only have done something, or somebody else will take care of it. This is one of the reasons Holocaust did happen. We are up to about 5,000,000 abortions since 1973, 1,000,000 a year, one out of four. As,-11 have mentioned that in Washington D.C., the nations capitol, there are actually more abortions than there are live births.in that particular district of Columbia. One of the worst thing that seems to be happening is the insensitivity of the people. You might be aware of the Dr. Waddell case in Santa Ana where he tried to... where there was a baby that was aborted and was born, according to the nurse and staff they put into life sustaining equipment and the doctor was accused and one of his practitioners that were with him saw him choking the baby. Speculation, because they could not prove it. There are all kinds of articles about people talking about Holocaust. Here is one protecting the Seals, skinning the seals, that is an economy. I don't criticize those people for that cause. It's worthwhile. There are a lot of things. I say insensitivity, here is a man that was stabbed in the back and crawled two blocks because no body would help. Here is another one of a teenage woman I believe, was of a 39 day old daughter which she killed. The insensitivity there. Here is a woman praising the funds that have to be spent for the handicapped child. She thanks in the last paragraph. "And my special thanksyou goes to all the citizens in California whose tax dollar provided support to these and other programs for the mentally retarded. God Bless you'. I know he will bless Eric." Other premature babies that were helped. Letters from around the United States citing similar cases. Here is one from the Federal Government right now, the House sub-committee approved tighter re- strictions on federal funding of abortions. That's all this is asking for. We are supporting the Legislature in their efforts to make a decision and ironically there was one the same day of the last Council Meeting of a 24 year old mother trying to suffocate her 18 month old son right here in the City of Rosemead. Mr. Tri- pepi do you remember the Sheriff's report in this case? Mr. Trpepi: I believe that copies were given to the Council. Mayor: The woman that took this baby from this mother that was trying to suffocate it was held at gun point,and yet she still went in twice to bring the baby out. I would like a commendation from myself or the council if they chose to participate. With a gun pulled on this woman she still went back and took the baby out. ,De_ 1:, CM - 5-9-78 Page #4 • 46 C/M Imperial: I think that weve really gone off on a 1800 angle on what wezare actually talking about. Because -if you did away with the funding of abortion and so forth. You are not going to stop people from killing other people whether they are a baby or anything else. So I think weuhave gone out in another area. On four separate occassions, I've heard you say tonight that this only concerns with the funding of abortion, and in my opinion that is not true. You are off in a broad area again on this Resolution. I would like to say that I would like to support this Resoluiton in its entirety being a good Catholic, or Christian as it may be, but I realize I have to be intelligent enough to separate Church from State. When you say funding of abortions, you talk about the rights of the unborn. No where in here, did I hear you or did it.say, that we have to talk about the rights of the personsthat was raped:: Where she had a situation beyond her control. Mr. Mayor have you ever had occassion to counsel a rape victim? Where she has completely blown her mind and where she is in a state of senselessness and will pro- bably never be the same from that point for the rest of her life? If there is any hope for her would she want a constant reminder of exactly what happened to her. I hardly think so. I have counseled some of these people and I have seen them. In a couple of occasions they were people very close,. I just don't think it is right to come up with a statement like this... so broad not taking into considera- tion circumstances beyond the persons control. I would vote for a Resolution that would state that this Council does not agree with the funding of abortions unless this funding be used for dirciumstances beyondo.er the control of the individual involved. I would go for that kind of a Resolution. Mayor: How would you word that. C/M Imperial: Beyond the control of the individuals involved. This leaves us leave-way to take into consideration what might have happened to an individual. That is the only type of resolution that I would go for. This is too broad in scope and gives consi- deration to an unborn but not to anhuman being who might have a lot of years to live. I certainly cannot agree with that. Mayor: Mr. Imperial I would agree with your concept in the fact that I was getting off based, you mentioned, rape is again a sep- arate item again completely that would have nothing to do, par- tially, the greatest majority would have nothing to do with what this resolution pertains to. It isn't going to stop rape. The State Legislature and the Federal Government did take that into consideration when they passed their resolution. This is one of the things that are going on right now with the State Legislature to make such concessions with the pro-abortion people. C/M Imperial: I personally do not give a damn what the State Legis- lature does, I am just worried about kind of action I react to.at this Council Meeting. Mayor: Yes, it is true, rape is a very emotional and severe thing for a woman. I would have to estimate out of the million abortions a year, they can't even document 10,000 or 1% as being rape. Yet, that is being taken into consideration in the Legislature and the U. S. Congress. We are asked many times to endorse or support laws throughout the years for the State Legislature or whatever the Senate or the Assembly. Mr. Cichy mentioned documentation. My wife is sitting down there and for the past 11 years we have been involved and I have personally have over 10,000 pages of documentation, and I have watched this thing grow and grow and grow, and I'm talking about the insensitivity when I got off base here. I certainly can sympathize with the people but sympathizing with their personal lives, there is just so much that each of us can do but yet, by the same token if there is 10,000 rape and conceptions a year which I doubt. It has never been documented there is just not that many. But how do we justify the 990,000. To document it. How could I propose 11 years of following this particular item through the State of California and yet nothing is being done. It is just kind of if we take no action or support our legislature, they will go ahead and pass the laws that they feel should be upon the people and yet this is just providing our input to the State Legis- lature. Mr. Imperial when you say that the resolution is too broad CM - 5-9-78 Page #5 • • I'd like to pinpoint it a little further. It simply states that "WHEREAS, the question of elective abortions has created a national controversy regarding its legality; I:,don't find any dispute there personally, it is a national controversy. The second paragraph "WHEREAS, the United States Supreme Court declared that local govern- ments may actively support the pro-life movement and may make a value judgment favoring child birth over abortion as was recently stated in the United States Supreme Court ruling of 1977 issued by Justice Maher or the case was actually Maher C/M Imperial: Mr. Mayor Mayor: I'd like to finish this, Mr. Imperial. Mayor: "WHEREAS, the people of the United States are seeking dir- ection from their elected officials as to whether elective abortions should be allowed to continue; I believe these people are seeking it and this is one of the reasons that the State Legislature and the National Legislatures are reversing their positions because people are looking for direction. The next paragraph, "WHEREAS, the California Supreme Court failed to take into consideration the rights of the unborn in ruling that elective abortions were legal under California law; Mr. Cichy did state that it's an extremely complicated case, they did not take into consideration many issues they took in several, but all this is is trying to make an effort. The next item is "the City Council of the City of Rosemead believes that unborn children are human beings and have rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" This is documented. The aid that is paid to pregnant women and the courts have said that they are entitled to extra money sorthey are entitled rights. They have rights of heirs and such. Mr. Cichy well knows that. They have right to protection, it all depends on what a person believes in. The next paragraph "the City Council of the City of Rosemead wishes to support human rights for all human beings and especially fbrsthose human beings unable to speak for themselves; NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLM the City Council of the City of Rosemead, determines that the unborn have certain unalienable rights as provided by the Declaration of Independence and is guaranteed under the United States Constitu- tion;" The Constitution if we were to pick it up and read it as it were drafted andtpast.eits an extremely intelligent and simple docu- ment to read. Just a couple of pages long. But the interpretation of the lawyers and the courts and such have made it into a multi- volume document that takes a life-time to understand and as far^as founding fathers of this country never had this problem to deal with. I can certainly understand at that stage of this country development there were so many things going on,the last thing in their mind was abortion. The last paragraph, "BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the City Council of the City of Rosemead hereby supports the rights of the unborn and opposes the use of public funding of abortions." Would you clarify why it is too broad? C/M Imperial: Thank you for reading it to me. Secondly, I stated why I thought it was too broad and I thought it was pretty clear,a Mr. Mayor I even came up with a substitute resolution. I would like to make a motion, that we table this Item. MOTION BY COUNCILMAN IMPERIAL, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN TURY that this item be tabled. Mayorr::.eTheeonly comment I have on it is that the State is acting on it this week, and I'm only sorry that you don't have I would like.... would you consider denying this Resolution, then we would be settled with it, rather than being wishy washy with it. C/M Imperial: Would the Mayor consider my resolution? Mayor: Yes. CM 5-9-78 Page #6 C/M Tury: May I make a statement first? Mayor: Yes, Mr. Tury. C/M Tury: Running the risk of seeming unsypathetic or hard-hearted or whatever, I can admire you for your strong stand. You are dead sure that you are right. I have personal feelings on it. I'm not so sure that I'm qualified to make this judgment. I could support like d said at the last meeting, I could support a resolution simply stated that due to the controversial nature of abortion the City Council of the City of Rosemead hereby opposes the use of Public Funds. I could go that far only. Not that I'm not sympathetic to what you are saying, I can agree that the morals of the country are having problems. It is just that I am personally don't feel qualified to pass on judgment except for myself. I know what I believe but I don't feel that I should be able to tell other people what they believe on this particular issue. Maybe, it is wishy- washy or whatever it is. I vitally oppose the funding of abortion through public funds. No question about it. I am not...I don't feel qualified ....I don't feel strong enough in my convictions in my mind that I can say that the Supreme Court is wrong or that some of these rulings are wrong. I do believe that.pbople do have free- dom with their bodyiand I do believe that people do have the right to life. It is a value judgment. I just could not vote for some- thing like that. C/M Cichy: I do believe we have a motion on the floor to table which does not require discussion, but since we have opened it, can I ask Mr. Tury a question? Mayor: Alright: C/M Cichy: Councilman, you did state that you do have certain opinions, your own personal opinions, and I'm sure that we are all confused with the issue at times, but in a statement that you would support the limiting of funding for abortions does that include those victims of rape or mental deficiencies? Cl.M Tury: No, that was as Mr. Imperial had stated "excepting extenuating circumstances such as on the books now, I would suppose. This has been legal long before abortion,,was made legal. Mayor: One clarification, Mr. Tury, this does not deny the person the right to abortion or their body. C/M Tury: No, Gary, what it does say, this thing really is a blanket indictment of abortion in principle. Now, you can call it what you want to, but in reality I give you credit for believ- ing so strongly and I am not saying that it is right or wrong. In reality, this resolution is nothing more than a blanket indic- ment of abortion. If it were any less than that, I could probably vote for it. Mayor: Mr. Imperial, would you go along with Mr. Tury's motion. C/M Imperial: I have no problems with going along with the motion as I stated previously. Mayor: Do you believe that you and Mr. Tury could work out... you have your concern about rape and incest and a simple resolution pertaining to the using of public funds, I would not object to something of that nature. It still gets the point accross. C/M Imperial: I would have no problem at all, Mr. Mayor with the resolution stating that this City Council is opposed to the use of public funds for abortion with the exception of those cases be- yond the control of the individual involved. I have no problem with something like that. C/M Tury: I wouldn't either. Mayor: I believe that whatayou:are:say ngg,I agree with and is fairly simple and reasonable. Could you put that in a motion? Ed Dilkes: The motion currently on the floor is to table and was seconded by Councilman Tury. CM 5-9-78 Page #7 C/M Tury: Would we have to C/M Imperial: At this time I would withdraw my motion to table. C/M Tury: I withdraw the second. C/M Imeperial: I make a motion to deny this resolution. Mayor: There is no reason to deny this resolution, it is simply a discussion at this point. If you have the resoluiton or the concept that you and Mr. Tury are thinking of at least it is something that this Council can say to our Legislature that maybe this isn't the perfect answer but at least we are expressing our opinion. C/M Cichy: With regards to Mr. Imperials statement about this particular motion that has been drafted, I would be willing to vote for a motion on limitation I would not be willing to vote for a motion that contained the usage and reference to these dif- ferent documents within the United States and Court decisions. On the other hand, before I would be willing to vote for a docu- ment of limitation to go to the Legislature I would request who ever was drafting it would get together with the City Attorney so that we don't submit a document that looks like this. I do think would have very little impact upon Legislators that are considering it, where they do have scientific, professional and religious people of some repute in front of them. I don't quite think that the contents here would receive a great deal of ethicacy. Mayor: In discussing Mr. Imperial & Mr. Tury's „ this would be completely stricken. The court cases that are cited. As they stated they have the same point simply put that they are opposed to the public funding of abortions except in circumstances beyond the control of the individual involved in cases such as rape or incest, and I don't know how it could get any simpler than that, and the fact that I would like to pushue the issue is the fact that they are holding hearings on it now and it is in committee and I believe it would serve its best purpose if it is acted on tonight. I agree with striking out the references here ...that is all they are strickly reference. Ed Dilkes: Mr. Tripepi and I just chatted for a minute let me see if this is something that the Council can agree on. If the resolution before you were amended so that it read: A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ROSEMEAD, CALIFORNIA OPPOSING THE USE OF PUBLIC FUNDS FOR ABORTION. The first recital would be WHEREAS, the question of elective abortion has created a national controvercy regarding its legality; and second recital would be WHEREAS, the people of the United States are seeking direction from their elected officials as to whether elect•i~e abortion should be allowed to continue; and then NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RE- SOLVED the City Council of the City of Rosemead hereby opposes the use of public funding for abortions except in those cases where the jpregnancy result from actions beyond the control of the victim. C/M Cichy: I would prefer the wording of the title of the Resolu- tion since it would be a limitation: A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ROSEMEAD CALIFORNIA OPPOSES or ENDORSES THE LIMITATION ON THE EXPENDITURES OF FUNDS FOR ABORTION FOR THOSE PARTICULAR AREAS CITED SPECIFICALLY. C%M Hunter: Mr. Mayor, I really didn't want to get into this disLi-- cussionibecausec3kmsthoroughly^convinned on this particular subject you are out of your mind. You have gone from skining.rof whales to the stabbing of people and the one thing that is totally.... I've heard Mr. Imperial, you and this new resolution ...the control of the victim. I'll bet you if we had a way tonight to talk to all of the expectant mothers in Rosemead they would say I didn't want it to happen ...I lost control. I'm not being funny, I'm not being facetious, but there is a can of 'worms, if you stop it. How many of our young ladies are going to cross the border into Mexico and butchered. There are so many moral judgments here Mr. Mayor, that I am going to vote no simply because I don't like to abstain. Thank you. CM 5-9-78 Page #8 Mayor: Mr. Hunter, as far as there are...this is one thing that they have documented, there are now more deaths through legal abor- tions than there were recorded for illegal abortions. C/M Hunter: I bow to your knowledge there because apparently if what you say. is true, and I have ho reason to doubt it that you have been working on it for 11 years. So I can see why you have gone as strongly as you have and I would have commended you for it until you got off on certain tangents and you literally got away from the subject matter. It makes me wonder just how dedi- cated you are on this matter. C/M Cichy: I really question your references to statistics and I certainly question your references to scientific materials when you refer to Collier's dictionary Mayor: Collier's Encyclopedia ...here in the library. C/M Cichy: Oh., that's right now there is a very scientific refer- ence that's absolutely used in all the journals as references as far as medical journals and scientific journals in the world, and I would like ...I will vote against it strictly from the standpoint that your references and your own particular moral and religious judgment that you are fostering on everyone else is substantiated by newspaper articles which in many instances appear to`have the taint of sensationalism. Obviously, a reference to a movie of Holocaust which even the Jewish community had a very difficult time accepting except that they felt that'the story needed to be told in a vivid manner. I'just think that if you are going to make reference to statistics that you'had better substantiate them somewhere other than out of the newspaper and out of Colliers En- cyclopedia or whatever. Mayor: Mr. Cichy, if I may make comment. Have you ever written a 30 page, a 30 document encyclopedia? C/M Cichy: Yes Mayor: You have written 30 volumes comparable to Colliers Encyclo- pedia? C/M Cichy:. Yes, you.can see the World Book of-Knowledge and we had three:bncyclopedias when we grew up and we read them every night. Mayor: Did you write them not read them? C/M Cichy: Oh, I'm sorry I wrote them oh no, but I don't have that problem, but you obviously have a problem in judgment and this is one of the most asfninea, things you have ever done. Mayor: Mr. Tury and Mr. Imperial C/M Tury: Mr. Mayor why don't we.:.apparently.we can't-get°-together on-'.this-'thing. It is my understanding, that we are talking about funds and the rest,: of us are all talking about moral issue we just don't know what were talking about without something written on a piece of paper in front of us with exactly what we said. I am assuming one thing however, I'm afraid I have to back off because I don't know how I am going to vote now. Mayor: Mr. Tury, if I may make a comment, and I hope you will take it in the proper light because I mean it in all sincerity. When you ran for the Council the comment was made that Mr. Tury would not stand on his own two feet because he is under the influence of other Councilmembers. Now, I believe wholeheartedly and your supporters and my supporters have asked me what I thought of Mr. Tury and I said I believe he believes in Rosemead, he can stand on his two feet and I mean this in a positive way and the fact that this is such an important issue otherwise I would drop it and if we don't take any action on it I'm not going to lose one way or the other because I know CM 5-9-78 Page #9 • 0 C/M Tury: Could we have a 5 minute recess so that I can see it written up. Mayor: Yes, Mr. Tury, we will have a 5 minute recess if you wish. My comments were made in support of you Mr. Tury and not as criticism, in a negative sense. We will have a 5 minute recess if there is no objection. RECESS Mayor: Call the Rosemead City Council back into session. The resolution as submitted will be the.... RESOLUTION NO. 78-23 A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ROSEMEAD OPPOSING THE EXPENDITURE OF PUBLIC FUNDS FOR ABORTION EXCEPT IN CASES INVOLVING RAPE AND INCEST THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF ROSEMEAD RESOLVES THAT: No public funds should be expended for abortion except in cases involving incest or rape. Mayor:I have no further comments, I think it is worth something .and if this Council is willing to take that stand then at least it is something. Any comments from Council? C/M Cichy: Yes, Mr. Mayor, I would like to know if you would publicly:.- state that you are voting one hundred percent with the exact wording in this statement as to your own convictions? Mayor: I don't mind. How would you like that worded? C/M Cichy: Any way you want to word it. Mayor: Perhaps we could have a certified vote on this, by that the vote would be listed for each councilmember. Clerk: It will be part of the certification: Mayor: I know that tomorrow morning sending a telegram to the State Legislatures,and whatever the outcome is I believe an effort was made and that is all I can say on it. I hope this would meet Mr. Imperial's and Mr. Tury's ideas. It couldn't be any shorter as far as I'm concerned. Are there any other comments. C/M Imperial: I think C/M Cichy made a request or Mayor Pro Tem Cichy. I think that in realty I burdened you with a statement and if that be the case that all of us should make. Being the maker of this motion then I would say at this time I agree 100% with the motion I just made. Mayor: You could list me as 100% also, or however you want to. Ed Dilkes: We-had a motion on the floor by Mr. Imperial seconded by Mr. Tury in favor of a substitute motion. Mayor: There was no substitute motion. Ed Dilkes: The clerk recorded one and so did I. What I would like to do at this time is to procedurally clean this think up by simply asking Mr. Imperial and Mr. Tury to withdraw their motion and second. Then they can remove the resolution in front of them, and then we will no longer have a mess sitting in front of us procedurally. Then Mr. Imperial can make the motion because I believe this reso- lution conforms to his request. C/M Imperial: What mess are we referring to? C/M 5-9-78 Page #10 Ed Dilkes: The Clerk recorded a motion by Mr. Imperial and a second by Mr. Tury.for a substitute resolution that resolution is now before you. Mayor: They withdrew their motion and second. So there is nothing.. There was a motion to table and they withdrew. Ed Dilkes: There was a motion by Imperial and seconded by Tury and that motion was withdrawn. The C/M Imperial: When you want to City Attorney, I think we were once a motion was made to table and you vote on the motion. If get down to technicalities, Mr. illegal to begin with because there is no further discussion I can recall, is that right? Ed Dilkes: That's right. C/M Imperial: Then we were illegal to begin with, and then we have to go back to that motion to table and vote on that motion. Ed Dilkes: No, No „ that motion was withdrawn. C/M Imperial: But there is suppose to be no discussion so that be the case then we were illegal in even discussing it or even coming up--.with a withdrawal of the motion. Ed Dilkes: Mr. Imperial, I'm not pointing fault at anyone, but the Clerk has piece of paper in front of her that shows a motion by you and a second by''Mr. Tury that motion is left hanging right now, and what I'm trying to do is to accomplish the desire of the council without leaving the clerk with minutes that reflect motions that were left hanging in the air. That's all'that I'm trying to do. The easiest way to clean out what is now a motion hanging and another motion in the air is to simply to:: treat the motion by you and seconded by Mr. Tury withdrawn and then you may remake a motion on this Resolution if that is your desire, and if not that can be left to somebody else. All I'm trying to do is to clean up the minutes. That's all. Mayor: Point of clarification. If you claim that there is a motion to table and this council is.... Clerk: There was a motion to table. Mayor: Excuse me. Mr. Dilkes. Ed Dilkes: There was a motion to table.Mr. Imperial is correct that is not a discussable motion. The Council did discuss it. I tend to be fairly lax about Robert Rules of Order and rather than jumping up and saying you are all out of order discussion seem to be more or less productive and I let it go. That was then withdrawn. That-motion died because the maker and the second withdrew. There was another motion made by Mr. Imperial which I understood to be a draft resolution which essentially in the form which you have before you. Mr. Tury seconded that. Because that really didn't require a motion it was basically instructions to go draft something. We just let that motion hang. I drafted what I was requested to draft and all I'm asking is to clean up Mrs. Poochigian's minutes so that she doesn't have a motion that is left hanging in the air. Please retract the motion and the second, and then make it again for this resolution. So that Resolution 78-23 in its present form is moved and seconded. That is all I'm asking. Simplest procedural question. Mayor: There was a motion and a second made, correct? Ed Dilkes: That's right. CM 5-9-78 Page #11 • -9 Mayor: Then a motion to amend that and to substitute this, would that be appropriate? Ed Dilkes: That would be fine. Mayor: That would be a simple way of doing it. Ed Dilkes: A substitute motion by somebody to substitute resolu- tion 78-23 for the general motion that was initially before you would be in order. Mayor: That could be made by Mr. Imperial, Tury or myself, makes no difference. MOTION BY MAYOR TAYLOR, SECONDED BY SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN IMPERIAL that the-".motion made by C/M Imperial and C/M Tury be amended and substitute Resolution No. 78-23 be adopted and the reading in full be waived. MOTION BY COUNCILMAN CICHY, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN HUNTER that both matters be tabled. Ed Dilkes: Motion before the Council is to table. Vote resulted: AYES: Councilman Cichy and Hunter NAYES: Councilmen Imperial, Tury and Taylor Whereupon the Mayor declared the motion did not carry. Ed Dilkes: The motion before you is the substitute motion to substitute Resolution No. 78-23 for the original motion. Mayor: Would you vote please? Vote resulted: AYES: Councilmen Imperial, Tury and Taylor NAYES: Councilman Cichy & Hunter Whereupon the Mayor declared said motion duly carried and so ordered. Ed Dilkes: The substitute motion has passed and the chief motion is before you to approve Resolution 78-23. MOTION BY MAYOR TAYLOR, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN TURY that Resolution No.. 78-23 be adopted. Vote resulted: AYES: Councilman Imperial, Tury and Taylor NAYES: Councilman-Cichy & Hunter Whereupon the Mayor declared said motion duly carried and so ordered. Mayor: Thank you, Gentlemen, and this was as far as I'm concerned a Legislative matter only. C/.M:Hunter: I disagree with that statement, and I make a motion that tonights minutes regarding abortion in its entirety be ver- batim. Mayor: Mr. Hunter would you be so kind as to include the minutes of the last meeting also, and that way we can have both meetings. C/M Hunter: I don't think that is necessary. I think tonight is where the proof is in the pudding. Mayor: I have no objections, and if there is no objections from Council then so ordered. C/M Hunter: Only the portion of the minutes pertaining to the abortion resolution that you yourself had introduced. CM 5-9-78 Page #12 Mayor: I have no objections. So ordered. Mayor Taylor inquired if there were any other matters for discussion. Frank G. Tripepi, City Manager, stated that there was a re- quest for authorization for the use of the station wagon to San Diego for the track team as they will be representing Rosemead in the San Gabriel Valley District Finals on Saturday May-13th. Councilman Imperial inquired if the entire team would be able to fit in the station wagon, and stated that he would ap- prove the request if not more than nine including the driver were not placed in the Station Wagon. MOTION BY COUNCILMAN IMPERIAL, SECONDED BY MAYOR TAYLOR that the request for transportation to San Diego for the Track Team be approved and staff to work out the proper vehicles needed to be used. Vote resulted: UPON ROLL CALL ALL COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT VOTED AYE. The Mayor declared said motion duly carried and so ordered., There being no further discussion, the Council Meeting was adjourned to May 23, 1978 at 8:00 p. m. Respectfully submitted: -City ule&k APPROVED: _,!v ayor CM 5-9-78 Page #13